WM,
Your comments regarding the agri-business are well put. There was a recent news story about how the US is implementing economic retaliatory measures against the EU. The price of many European gourmet foods such as San Pelligrino water and Roquefort cheese is about to double. This is due to the fact that the US is about to raise tariffs on many of the European gourmet foods to as much as 300%. Many of these goods are already subject to a 100% tariff. While I am sure that we have water here in America that is every bit as good San Pelligrino, I am still disturbed by the news. Apparently, the US action, which appears to be just fine with that non-elected body the WTO, is due to the European people having decided that they don't want to consume our hormone-laiden beef. How dare those evil Europeans! Damn them!! Damn them all to hell!!!
17 comments:
Pmt:
The iPhone is being peckish today; tried to post but it didn't take. If duplicates show up you'll know why. Too sunny today to be online. I'll be back later to hear from ClearAyes.
Windhover
PMT, First of all, here's a photo of Charley the Schipperke. It is one of the better photos we have of him, usually he looks like a black blob on the carpet or lawn. Schipperkes, pronounced "skipper-key", were first bred in 17th century Belgium for use as guard dogs on barges and weigh in at 12 to 17 pounds. Schipperke translates from Flemish as "little captain". They are careful barkers and don't do it unless there is something that needs attention. They are very surefooted, generally fearless (Can you see the scar from a meeting with a pitbull on Charley's nose?) and take their jobs very seriously. We have a footpath worn around the perimeter of our yard from his "checking up on everything" patrols. They are friendly, but are not lapdogs. At parties, Charley will walk around, introduce himself, wait for a pat (and hoping for a treat) and move on to the next guest. They are long-lived, generally healthy little guys. 17 years is not unusual. Charley is our second Schip and probably not our last.
Now, let me think about God for a little while and I'll be back.
PMT...I DEFINITELY want to discuss this subject...another soapbox issue. I have already been on the computer for too long today and need to get into the studio...wine time in the evening and will chat.
WM
OK, I opened my mouth and now I have to put my foot in it.
I do agree with PMT's comment from the other day, that we need to know why we believe certain things. With the subject of God, it is equally important that we know why we don't believe things.
A little background should come in here. My father, of Russian heritage, was born a Jew and reared from the age of four in a Jewish orphanage in Chicago. He had all the traditional religious training, but being of a rather skeptical bent, at an early age he stood in a deserted synagogue and dared God to strike him down for doubting Him. Nothing happened and my father became a skeptical agnostic.
My mother's family were Swedish Lutheran background agnostics. In spite of declaring herself an agnostic, my mother had a spiritual leaning and, like PMT, felt there was Something Out There. For a while she attended the Church of Religious Science and also tried the Unitarian Church.
When their three daughters were born, we had lots of religious relatives on both sides of the Old and New Testaments to listen to. We had Christmases and Passovers. We were permitted to attend whatever churches might take our fancies. Not wanting to be considered a freak, I went with some of my friends to their Sunday Schools. When I grew up, I made a stab at attending a Reform Synagogue for a while and also checked in with the Unitarians. I took a couple of philosophy classes and figured that I most agreed with the Pragmatists. Now I've almost forgotten what that philosophy is (I'll have to look it up), so I may have moved on.
I'll take a break here. Is it too early for a glass of wine? I'll be back soon.
This is just me. I used to say I was an agnostic. Believers could look at me, nod knowingly and think, "I'll pray for her. She'll come around." After a while, I realized I was just being wishy-washy. Why would I want less condemnation, or at most, a lesser degree of disapproval? So I finally acknowledged the fact that I'm an atheist.
I believe the idea of an omniscient babysitter is ridiculous. It makes no sense that there is a God listening to our complaints and desires and that will grant wishes like a genie.
I believe that belief in God is based on people's fear being alone. Being alone on a cosmic scale could really put the heebie-jeebies on a person. Somehow I like the idea of being on my own. I can depend on nobody but myself and what I can accomplish. That doesn't mean I don't love the people in my life. If anything, it makes me want to treat them more kindly since they are in the same "alone" boat as I am. Death, as the "end", isn't an awful idea to me.
I believe that the science of evolution is the sole, true, and elegant, explanation for the origin of life.
In addition, I believe that our self awareness, reasoning abilities, values, ethics, morality and even the idea of the soul are all based in evolutionary principles. "Oh that can't be. It is just too complicated for all of this to have come about accidentally!". Really? Evolution is not an accident. It is a chain of events that take place over millennia, always testing and refining.
Where did the first spark of the Universe begin? OK, I don't know. I freely admit there is no possible way we can be sure. Could it have been a First Mover? Yes, it possibly could have been, but my doubt is so much stronger than that vague possibility. Does that smidgen of doubt require me to say I'm an agnostic? I don't think so.
Finally, just on moral grounds, I believe that religions in general are divisive, unpleasant constructs based on fear and the distasteful inclination of human beings to want to be superior to other human beings.
Oh yes, I have read Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion" and "The Selfish Gene"...and now I will get that glass of wine.
Okay...I will pretty much have to go with ClearAyes as that is pretty much where I stand also. I think that the things that have been done throughout history and are continuing to be done in the name of religion are appalling when what it is really about is power, wealth(greed) and control.HMMM...same excuse for war.
What I do believe in is the beauty of each and every day, friends and family that I cherish, the fecundity and beauty of the earth and in every gorgeous cloud.I believe in respecting other people's belief's and trying to understand their point of view, especially if I don't agree.
I think that evolution is really the way things have happened, although I do still have questions about that missing link thing and if we have both people and apes why? and now they are saying that there is not much DNA evidence to actually connect Neanderthal with Cro-Magnon...so... I start to drop back to "In Search of Ancient Astronauts" and find myself intrigued that we could all be part of a long ago extraterrestial experiment gone awry...as we obviously have, and if "they" will ever come back and fix the mess they made, or their civilzation is long gone. It really goes such a long way to explaining so many things and so many similarities that occured around the world, in different cultures, at approximately the same time. It also goes a bit of a way to explaining a lot of the monolithic building that occured among people that supposedly had no contact with each other.
I don't think that it is any more unreasonable than a lot of stuff that is spouted in the name of religion.
I kind like Paganism or Animism if I really needed an "ism"...Earth as Mother.
I'll just make a few comments on the food thing because I could go on for days about this...WE, as a country need to actually step back a bit and realize what is happening with the abusive treatment of our food sources, be it animal or vegetable. It's no wonder Europe doesn't want the crap we produce on these massive torture units we call farms.
There are a lot of good people out that have generations of experience in farming and big business has demeaned them and destroyed what they are capable of doing with theier one-size fits all attitude. This is partly why Windhover is so interesting in how he has chosen to live his life. The American Farmer was the backbone of this country and we have almost destroyed safe, multi-functional farms, replacing them with horrible factory farms where animals are abused and fed things they waren't designed to eat and digest and then given drugs to overcome their bodies aversion to what they are being forced to eat...disgusting! Farmers that are forced to buy altered seed every year and tons of fertilizers and weed killers to keep up the mono-culture crops that are destroying the very land that feed us...again, disgusting.
So...PMT...Yes, I think the fact that the government is punishing countries who don't want to buy the dangerous crap we produce by taxing their products is garbage, there are a lot of good things being made and produced here at home if we look really hard. Roquefort, as fabulous as it is can actually be replaced by some award winning cheeses being made in Oregon...I think that in the long run, some of these things will change under this new administration. We need to keep world markets open and punishing each other with tariffs isn't a very good way to go.
CA's Wine tip for the day: Menage a Trois...Cab,Zin and Merlot...Costco for under $7...really! My brother the architect, who has an amazing wine celler, recommeded this for guilt free sipping wine...When I have given it to people they are amazed at how soft and smoothe it is...YUM
ClearAyes, Is Charley's scar just above the center of the black part of his nose? If it is, I think I see it.
WM, That's fine. Take your time :)
"like PMT, (I) felt there was Something Out There."
I am leary of the use of this phrase. It sounds pretty X-Filesish. Did I just coin a new word? I am of the 'As Above, So Below' ilk. I am more of a psychonaut and feel that the inner space is, if not less important than, equally important to the outer space.
New clue: Ilk. Answer: Persuasion.
Have we seen that one yet?
ClearAyes, Your notion regarding "people's fear of being alone" is illuminating. A vast number of people allow their actions to be determined by others out of fear of being alone. That is what 'loneliness' is: 'Fear' of being alone. This is quite different from simple 'aloneness'. It is one thing to be alone, it is another to accept (or not) being alone and it is , yet, another to be able to embrace being alone. The fact is: WE ARE ALONE! This is true for every one of us. It is the fundamental characteristic of sentience.
"Death, as the "end", isn't an awful idea to me." As far as I can see, there is no death. Life springs anew, always. I think what we truly fear is the death of the 'idea' of ourselves.
You are quite right about evolution. There is a contingency that suggests that evolution is just a theory. They are either ignoramuses or they have vested interests. Evolution is not a theory. Evolution is observable phenomena. What is theory is the method, the process that results in evolution. Charles Darwin's theory is one of those. I might not be willing to give carte-blanche to Mr. Darwin's theory, but that does not mean that I deny the fact that creatures have evolved. That would be beyond ignorant, it would be stupid.
"I believe that religions in general are divisive, unpleasant constructs based on fear and the distasteful inclination of human beings to want to be superior to other human beings."
I couldn't agree more ... so long as we are speaking of 'organized' religion. That shaman up there in the hills behind you that appears in your backyard as a coyote now and then is exempt.
Enjoy your glass of wine :)
Windhover,
Did I mention that I admire your Irish lass' artfulness on not missing a drop?
WM, LOL...yes, Ménage à Trois. We just had some of the Red on Monday evening. The folks who own the Folie à Deux Winery are acquaintances of my cousin and her husband and they introduced us to it.
RE: Ancient Astronauts...my parents had friends who were advocates and disciples. I spent several summer weekends in the early 60's at Giant Rock in the Mohave desert at "UFO Conventions". The conventions weren't just about Ancient Astronauts, but they were included in the spectrum of beliefs and presentations.
Your take on "Earth as Mother" is much more agreeable to me than traditional religion. Have you heard that Mrs. Obama is starting a organic vegetable garden at the White House. I knew I liked her!
I am interested to hear from you and Windhover about the solutions to factory farming. I saw chef, and proponent of organic gardening, Alice Waters on 60 Minutes last Sunday. I agreed with just about everything she said. Confession....I do have a microwave oven and I do use it just about every day. But it is a sad fact that fresh organic food costs a lot more than non-organic. Not everyone has the room or time to have a home garden. So how can tastier, fresher, healthier food be made available at prices people on lower incomes can afford?
PMT, I was thinking of rephrasing to possibly read "Something Out There OR In There", but hit the Publish button before I reread a second time. You're right, it did sound rather X-Filey. Sorry about that.
Are you sure you're not a closet Buddhist?
Yes, you spotted Charley's battle scar. He was even on a leash and went to say Hi to a pitbull behind a chain link fence. The PB grabbed his nose through the fence. Christmas Day, 2006....8 hours to, during, and from the emergency vet.
LOL. If that shaman tries to eat Charley, he will not be on my exempt list!
OK, Promise,
If you bet the trifecta today, you'll be cashing a win ticket. I like ClearAyes, have often found myself copping to the agnostic label, when I am in fact athiest. If this thread continues to be of interest to you and the others, I will relate my theological journey. I will say now that I grew up in a family that faithfully attended a mainline Protestant church. Very typical. And the way I came to where I am now involved a lot of reading, study and thought. Here is a brief anecdote that sums up ( a little crudely) where I am.
In 2002, I attended a conference which was framed around a celebration of the 25th anniversary of the publication of Wendell Berry's book The Unsettling of America. During one of the talks, there was an older gentleman sitting near me who asked what I considered a very perceptive question. After the session, I approached him to say so, and asked if he was a retired farmer. He laughed and said that while he was retired, it was from the Catholic priesthood. One thing led to another and we ended up going to dinner with a group of people neither of us knew, and we were seated together. At some point he informed me that he had lost his faith. Having been through that, I was curious and asked how that happened. "Very suddenly", he said, "one night I was doing dishes and the thought came to me,unbidden:'Virgin birth? What kind of bullshit is that?'" Since then I have realized that most religious people laugh at other religions myths and miracles (70 virgins in Paradise?), but swallow their own hook line and sinker. BTW, I also have read Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris et al, and they leave me a little cold, even though I find little or nothing to disagree with.
To close for now, there is a singer/songwriter I like a lot who has a song, Let the Mystery Be. Amen, as they say in church.
Windhover
PS: typed laboriously on the /:($@" Iphone.
Promise: Just saw your 9:28 comment.
Here in the Garden: de rigueur.
CA & WM: I mentioned the cheesemaker Judy Shad the other day. (capriole cheese). She has a friend in Ca who she talks with often who is also a cheesemaker. One day the friend said: If we had a third person we could have a fromage-a-trois. A T-shirt was born. I have one.
Sorry about the duplicate post. The Iphone is obviously not Irish
Windhover (and out)
Windhover: De Rigueur? HAHA :)
"Sorry about the duplicate post. The Iphone is obviously not Irish"
Just keep whispering sweet nothings in her ear. I am sure she will be able to overcome the smell of Dolly ;)
Oh, did you mean that your Irish was more cooperative than the iPhone? I thought you meant that she wasn't willing to do the Lewinsky twice. My bad :(
Promise: She's willing if I'm able. He'll, I'm 63. (She's 42). Nine more months and I'm a Beatles song.
Hope our co-conspirators have had enough vino to put them to sleep. I don't want to offend them. Maybe you should remove this one. I'll understand. Big day tomorrow; lots of little jobs. May check in without posting. Carry on.
Windhover
Windhover...you never cease to amaze me...If I had to type that into an iPhone...REALLY short posts!!!
I thought that Judy's name sounded familiar...Capriole is, I believe, the maker of Wabash Cannonball...She has several very clever cheese names and is held in exceedingly high regard in the American Artisan Cheese community. My guess is that she may have have been talking about my friend Jennifer Bice at Redwood Hill or perhaps Peggy and Sue at Cowgirl Creamery...actually it could have been any number of people.We have quite a few really really good cheesemakers in this general area.
American cheesemakers have learned to become great cheesemakers considering the scaremongering that has gone for decades over unpasteurized milk and raw milk cheeses.The Europeans can just let the flavors of the milk shine through, but here, any soft cheese has to be a minimum of 60 days to be allowed for sale...BLEH...But... with the ingenuity we are famous for, American Artisan cheeses are improving every year. Judy probably also knows Debra Dickerson of 3D cheese and a go-to person in this country on Artisan cheeses.
CA...Organic is definitely more expensive and not always easy to come by...I would suggest that you read labels in Costco and your local grocery for the most local you can get...fresh local is always better than organic imported... or anything that comes in from a distance, more food value for the money. Farmer's Markets are also a good choice and you can get to know the growers. The Farmer's Market movement is growing steadily. I would say if you had room to grow anything...put in a selection of a few tomatoes...nothing beats fresh tomatoes and it is usually something you can eat a lot of during the summer, even if you only have room for 2 or 3 plants. Roma tomatoes are always good and I always like a cherry variety. If you can find it...the green zebra is awesome...productive, lovely and delicious.
ALso...It is so cool that ALice Waters talked with Obama's...she tried with the Clinton's but they wouldn't go for it...it is appropriate because the last vegetable garden at the White House was planted by FDR...
Alice started the school garden program here in Oakland that includes food classes for the kids and they also learn to cook the food they grow...she is also responsible for many similar programs across the country...a real dynamo. A friend and I actually have eaten at Chez Panisse...we were in Beserkeley at the Cheese Board and CP is just up the street...so on a whim, we went in and they said if we would come back in an hour, we could get a table for lunch...and...so we did! CP is definitely Mecca for CA foodies, kind of where everything really started...at least WE think so. At least I can say that I ate there once!
That is so cool that you know the Menage a Trois people...6 degrees of separation!!. One of my best friends who is among our crazy foodie group is always calling me up to tell me who she ran into...including stopping in at Bouchon and sitting next to Thomas Keller in his own restaurant! She is a hoot. I really believe that the food world is a very small village. (I'll have to copy Kazie's info on markings so I can try to insert the correct accents in the future).
WIndhover's comments are really interesting and I definitely would like to hear more...and, I will leave a back to the old ways for healthier food for tomorrow...there are proven ways to feed the country without the awful practices this country has adopted...it is already being done.
My computer is acting up and has now also dumped my flashdrive so the online puzzles are out for now. I really don't think I can complain considering Windhover's expertise with the iPhone...
Cheers. WM
Last check-in for the evening. Lots of good comments today.
Windhover and PMT, don't think of deleting anything on WM's or my account. I don't think we are very offendable.
PMT, I'm afraid I can't recommend a Stockholm hotel. We have been very fortunate to either stay with relatives in Huddinge, which is a Stockholm suburb, or to have a flat in the city at our disposal. As in most large European countries (Damn them!) the subway system is wonderful. Where are your stops on the Scandinavian cruise?
We have a busy day coming up tomorrow also. The grandkids are coming to visit....YIKES! I'd better get ready for bed, I'll need all the rest I can get.
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